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Unofficial File parts/73435.dat

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File Header:

0 Door  1 x  4 x  5 Right with Smoke Glass
0 Name: 73435.dat
0 Author: James Jessiman
0 !LDRAW_ORG Unofficial_Shortcut
0 !LICENSE Redistributable under CCAL version 2.0 : see CAreadme.txt

0 BFC CERTIFY CW

0 !HISTORY 1998-06-20 [PTadmin] Official Update 1998-06
0 !HISTORY 2007-07-21 [PTadmin] Header formatted for Contributor Agreement
0 !HISTORY 2008-07-01 [PTadmin] Official Update 2008-01
0 !HISTORY 2009-11-07 [Steffen] subfiled, to be able to model variants with differing glass, BFCed
0 !HISTORY 2010-01-31 [Steffen] re-organized files

Status:
1 'hold' vote. (HF)
Size: 643 bytes

Reviewers' certifications:

Eldar=novote
Holly-Wood=novote
Philo=novote
Steffen=novote
arezey=novote
mikeheide=hold

Required (unofficial) subfiles:
(none)

Related (unofficial) files:
(none)

File reviews and updates:

At Sun Nov 8 06:36:06 2009, the file was initially submitted.
Submitted by: Steffen
======================================================================
At Sun Nov 8 21:08:17 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
color 39 not defined in ldconfig.ldr

======================================================================
At Sun Nov 8 21:25:22 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: novote
Comments:
Color 39 was present in the original file by James Jessiman.
What would be the correct one?
Cf. part 6567c02.dat which uses color 40 instead. hmm.

======================================================================
At Sun Nov 8 21:25:54 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: hold
Comments:
increasing to hold. we need to find out what's wrong here.

======================================================================
At Sun Nov 8 21:35:04 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
I think you are right with color 40 IMHO.

======================================================================
At Sun Nov 8 22:32:05 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: hold
Comments:
not sure about that. this seems to get difficult.
perhaps James meant with color 39 = "trans grey"?
note that ldconfig.ldr lists "trans white" and "trans black"
but no "trans grey". However, it lists a "trans dark black"
which I don't understand currently.
It will be very difficult to properly keep the various
"trans" levels distinguished.
Could someone perhaps collect a photo link list here to explain?

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 07:40:13 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Eldar
Certification: novote
Comments:
search for Philo's visualldconfig.mpd in Google ,
color #40 looks like a transparent grey.
as there is no color 39 any more we have to use color 40.
And i do not see an alternative.

That color just change a name and a number.
I do not khow why ldconfig workgroup create a new color instead replacing color 39 RGB values by 40.

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 08:58:04 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: arezey
Certification: novote
Comments:
But if color 39 was Smoke in the past, the new LDConfig is being backwards-incompatible! I'm starting to think this is an error in LDConfig

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 16:58:35 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Holly-Wood
Certification: novote
Comments:
Stop thinking that the LDConfig group mismatched 39 with 40. We based the backwards compatability on the old color chart:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080412024115/http://www.ldraw.org/Article93.html

As you can see there is NO 39. Color 40 has to be used instead.

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 17:10:32 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
Agreeing with Hollywood. I still have the old version (LDRAW_ORG Configuration UPDATE 2004-03) on my system and there is no color 39!
But I just saw that MLCad uses both numbers for transparent parts!

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 17:25:35 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: arezey
Certification: novote
Comments:
Sorry. :-)

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 17:53:21 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
A sorry is not really necessary. If you have a look at the following page you will find that it was seen that color 39 is used in official parts. But there is no color 39 in the ldconfig.ldr. This seems strange to me! Maybe the error has been made years before? I just downloaded the complete.exe from 2001 (http://web.archive.org/web/20010224021441/www.ldraw.org/download/start/advanceduser.html) and the files contains color 39!!

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 19:26:08 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: hold
Comments:
Well, I digged some more into this.

Unfortunately, I think that ldconfig.ldr has the bug here: Color 40 is wrong.
The correct color code for trans-black should have been 39 instead.
The error is present from the beginning on.

Here's how I conclude this:

ldconfig.ldr has been introduced quite a while *after*
the LDRAW library was around. To be precise, it was introduced
with update 0302 of Fri Aug 1 00:24:47 2003

Before, the file did not exist at all.

So I had a look into the original LDRAW parts library that comes
with LDRAW 0.27, i.e., without any update installed.
And checked the parts library for presence of color 39 and color 40.
Result:
a) color 39 is used in parts
13.dat, 236.dat, 247.dat, 247b.dat, 31.dat, 32.dat, 33.dat, 34.dat, 453.dat, 604.dat, 645.dat, 646.dat
there
b) color 40 is NOT USED AT ALL

Thus, I conclude that when the first version of ldconfig.ldr
had been authored, the glitch has slipped in there.

----------------

Now for the resolution: "downwards compatibility" is the word here.
We must not break existing models. My suggestion is as follows:

- we should keep the LDRAW standard of "color 39 means trans black"
because it was so in LDRAW 0.27, and all later updates contained
parts using that color. We should not define this away,
just because ldconfig.ldr errs on this.

- unfortunately, because color 40 got out into the wild via the (wrong)
ldconfig.ldr, there might exist now also models that use color 40 for it.
The only way I see to heal this is that we support color 40 as being
a numerical alternative to color 39, defining exactly the same color.
However, it should be labeled as "deprecated, do not use" to prevent people
from creating new parts using that color.

- all our parts should be corrected to use color 39 instead of 40

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 19:30:37 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: hold
Comments:
it seems to me that the lugnet thread
http://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/73435.dat
comes to the wrong result "color 40 is correct"

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 19:55:28 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: hold
Comments:
In MLCad, the two colors currently being discussed here are labeled
39 = Trans-Light-Gray
40 = Trans-Dark-Gray

32 = Trans-Black

so this perhaps explains the history how this originated.
Have there really ever been two different trans-grey parts
in reality (trans-light-gray vs. trans-dark-gray)?


======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 21:07:17 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
The thread Steffen wants to refer to is http://news.lugnet.com/cad/?n=16598 IMHO.

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 21:41:05 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: arezey
Certification: novote
Comments:
Mmmmmh, very interesting. Moved-to colors. And I was right after all. :-)

But seriously, if we are on the correct tracks, then as LDConfig.ldr is lacking color 39 it is at the very moment backwards-incompatible! And we seem to have been for quite a long time..

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 22:48:56 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Holly-Wood
Certification: novote
Comments:
This:

http://news.lugnet.com/cad/?n=852

lists none of the colors so I guess 39 and 40 have been introduced with MLCad.

======================================================================
At Mon Nov 9 23:06:01 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
No they where not introduced by MLCad. If you read the LEDIT.TXT file you will find the color codes 0 .. 16 and the following sentence: Clear Colours.
Add 32 to get clear versions of the colours.
For example, to get clear red use 36 (32 for clear + 4 for red)
Seems that we have forgotten our roots!

======================================================================
At Tue Nov 10 20:08:28 2009, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: hold
Comments:
Well, this way things may turn out to be easier than thought.
We don't have to declare one of 39 or 40 as invalid.
Both can (no, should!) stay, and ldconfig.ldr simply needs
to be extended to contain both.

After that, we need to decide which parts should use 39
and which 40. (Though, this will be difficult...)


======================================================================
At Mon Feb 1 17:24:14 2010, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: novote
Comments:
removing hold because
- adding color 39 to ldconfig.ldr is not this part's fault
- checking all existing parts that are using trans-grey variants is a separate task

======================================================================
At Sat Mar 30 20:55:03 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Philo
Certification: novote
Comments:
Looks like proper design number is 73194, see http://brickset.com/parts/search/?query=73194. 73435 seems to be an item number for this part in red.

======================================================================
At Sat Mar 30 23:10:03 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: novote
No comments were posted with this review.

======================================================================
At Sat Mar 30 23:10:03 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: hold
Comments:
it is still unclear here if the "smoke glass" combination exists
separately from the "TransClear Glass" combination

======================================================================
At Sun Mar 31 06:15:04 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Philo
Certification: novote
Comments:
Bricklink has photos for 4 glass colors: http://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?q=73435c*

======================================================================
At Sun Mar 31 09:40:05 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: novote
Comments:
lifting hold.
this file has been out official,
so the glass color should not be changed non-downwards compatibly.


======================================================================
At Sun Mar 31 09:45:06 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: novote
Comments:
note the usage of color 39 here for the glass.
it is done to keep consistency with the previously official files
which use that code.
However, that code has some problems:
(A) it currently is missing from ldconfig.ldr
(B) it is probably all wrong and WHEN/IF changed it needs to be done consistently throughout the whole library. While it still exists being used, this part uses that color number for CONSISTENCY...

======================================================================
At Sun Mar 31 09:45:06 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: Steffen
Certification: novote
Comments:
note the usage of color 39 here for the glass.
it is done to keep consistency with the previously official files
which use that code.
However, that code has some problems:
(A) it currently is missing from ldconfig.ldr
(B) it is probably all wrong and WHEN/IF changed it needs to be done consistently throughout the whole library. While it still exists being used, this part uses that color number for CONSISTENCY...

======================================================================
At Sun Mar 31 11:25:02 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
I think the designID for this combination is 73194 (4344 - glass, 4343 - frame)

======================================================================
At Sun Mar 31 11:25:02 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
I think the designID for this combination is 47899 (4344 - glass, 4343 - frame)

======================================================================
At Sun Mar 31 19:05:04 2013, the following review was posted:

Reviewer: mikeheide
Certification: hold
Comments:
Please have a look at this page and remember that these data are taken from TLG website!
http://www.brickset.com/parts/browse/categories/?category=Frames,%20Windows,%20Walls%20And%20Doors


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